Michael Hill's Genealogy Forums

This write-up starts with what I know about my GGGG grandmother, Lucy Harvey. I then explore the circumstantial evidence that she may have been the daughter of Thomas Harvey and Cynthia Malone, a possibility that has already been suggested by others (Kelly O'Donnell, Rena Young, Judy Ray, and probably some others). This write-up doesn't break new ground, but I hope it serves as a starting point for moving forward.

A. What I Know About Lucy Harvey

Here's what I know about Lucy Harvey as of May 2009:

1. Lucy Harvey's husband was Archibald W. Cameron.
2. Lucy's children were: Mary Elizabeth, Cynthia Adaline, Nancy M., Thomas, Rufus K., Flora Bell Zelda, and Alice Wade (my GGG grandmother).
3. Based on the names and ages of their children, we know that Lucy is shown in the 1850 and 1860 census schedules in Choctaw County, Mississippi. (Archibald is in the 1850 census, but apparently died prior to the 1860 census.)
4. The 1850 and 1860 census schedules both state that Lucy was born in Georgia in 1815 or 1816.
5. Lucy does not show up in the 1870 census. Her youngest daughter, Alice, age 16, was living with Lucy's married daughter Cynthia. This strongly suggests that Lucy died before the 1870 census.
6. According to the places and dates of birth of their children in the 1850 and 1860 census schedules, Lucy and Archibald moved from Alabama to Mississippi sometime between 1834 and 1839.
7. The 1840 census shows "Archibald W. Camron" in Choctaw County, Mississippi. The 1840 census doesn't show individual members of the household, but it lists one male age 20-30, two females age 0-5, one female age 20-30, and two slaves. This is certainly Archibald and Lucy.
8. There are other Harvey households in Choctaw County in the 1850 and 1860 census pages. I'll detail those below. In the 1850 census, Isaac Harvey, age 21, born in Alabama, grocery keeper, was living with Archibald and Lucy.
9. According to family history (but unverified by any evidence as far as I know), Lucy's father was Thomas Harvey, known to the local American Indians as "Tomahajah" (or something similar). There has been an effort for several years to determine whether he was a Choctaw Indian himself.

To summarize, in chronological order:

1. Lucy was born in Georgia in 1815 or 1816. It is said, but unproven as far as I know, that her father was Thomas Harvey, who may have been known to the Choctaws as Tomahajah.
2. Lucy married Archibald Cameron, probably around 1834 in Alabama.
3. Their first child was born in Alabama around 1834 or 1835.
4. Lucy and Archibald moved to Choctaw County, Mississippi sometime before 1840.
5. Lucy's last child was born 22 Feb 1854 in Choctaw County.
6. Archibald died sometime between 1853 and 1860.
7. Lucy died sometime between 1860 and 1870.

B. 1850 Census: Nearby Harvey Families

Now let's look at the other Harveys living in Choctaw County, Mississippi in the 1850 census: (The John and G.B. Harvey families shown in the Western Division appear to be father and son; this family was in Choctaw County in the 1840 census and appears to be unrelated to the Harvey families in Subdivision 23.)

Harveys in Choctaw Co., Mississippi in 1850 census

Subdivision 23, Choctaw, Mississippi

Household #495:
Z.E. Harvey; 30; Alabama (Farmer)
Elizabeth Harvey; 22; Virginia
Thadaus Harvey; 1; Mississippi

Household #742
Thomas Harvey; 54; Georgia (Mechanic)
Syntha Harvey; 45; South Carolina
Elizabeth Harvey; 22; Alabama
Jefferson Harvey; 10; Mississippi
Cemantha Harvey; 8; Mississippi

Household #812:
W.H. Harvey; 32; Georgia (Keeping Grocery)
Elizabeth Harvey; 29; Alabama
Eugene Harvey; 10; M; Alabama
Joel Harvey; 8; M; Alabama [note: 1860 census lists him as Thomas]
Oscar Harvey; 6; M; Mississippi
Evea Harvey; 4; F; Mississippi
Alus Harvey; 5/13; Mississippi
2 slaves

Household #819:
A.W. Cameron; 38; North Carolina (Baliff)
Lucy; 34; Georgia
Mary; 15; Alabama
Adaline; 11; Mississippi
Nancy; 9; Mississippi
Thomas; 5; Mississippi
Ruphus; 3; Mississippi
Folry; 9/13; Mississippi
Isaac Harvey; 21; Alabama; (Keeping Grocery)

Western Division, Choctaw, Mississippi

Household #366
John Harvey; 51; Kentucky (Wheelright)
Katherine Harvey; 50; Kentucky
William Harvey; 13; Mississippi
Elizabeth Harvey; 19; Mississippi
John Harvey; 11; Mississippi
Nancy Harvey; 83; Virginia

Household #367 (very next household)
G.B. Harvey; 31; Kentucky (Wheelright)
Emily Harvey; 5 or 25; Alabama
John W Harvey; 2, Mississippi
Almyra Harvey; 1, Mississippi
Jamima Harvey; 3/12, Mississippi

Living near the Camerons (above) was the W.H. Harvey family. Later census schedules show that W.H. Harvey's first name was Wade. Wade is listed as two years younger than Lucy, also born in Georgia. And his occupation was "Keeping Grocery", the same occupation as Isaac Harvey who was living with Lucy's family. Also, Lucy named her last baby, "Alice Wade". All of this strongly suggests to me that Wade, Lucy, and perhaps Isaac were probably siblings. (As a side note, after the 1850 census, I found no trace of Isaac.)

Also living nearby were Thomas Harvey, his wife Syntha, and three children. This Thomas Harvey (as has been suggested by others) is an obvious candidate for Lucy's father. Assuming Syntha's age was slightly understated in the 1850 census, it's possible she could have been mother to Lucy (b. abt 1816) as well as "Cemantha" (b. abt 1842) and others in between.

According to a discussion board message <genforum.genealogy.com/malone/messages/1086.html> about this Thomas Harvey family:

1. Thomas Harvey and Cynthia Malone married in Jones County Georgia on 25 Jul 1814. (Source of exact date: <searches1.rootsweb.com/usgenweb/archives/ga/jones/vitals/marriages/1811.txt>.)
2. They lived in Jasper County, Georgia from 1815 through 1819.
3. They moved to Fayette County, Alabama in 1819.
4. They moved to Choctaw County, Mississippi in 1838.
5. They also lived in Pickens County, Alabama and Webster County, Mississippi.
6. Thomas died in 1862.
7. Thomas was thought to be the son of Zepthaniah Harvey of Jasper County, Georgia.
8. Most of this information was from a military pension application submitted by Cynthia in 1878. (I ordered a copy of the application file from the National Archives. When I receive it, I'll scan it and post it online.)

If we assume that Lucy, Wade, Isaac, and the three living with Thomas and "Syntha" were all children of Thomas and Cynthia, the birth dates and places are all consistent with the lives of Thomas and Cynthia. It's worth mentioning that Lucy named two of her children Thomas and Cynthia. There was another Harvey living nearby in 1850 ("Z.E. Harvey") who could also be a son. As with Isaac, I found no record of Z.E. after the 1850 census.


C. 1860 Census: Thomas, Cynthia, and William C. Harvey

Moving along to the 1860 census, Thomas and Cynthia had two more children living with them (see below), but these were almost certainly not their own children. Nancy, age 12, would have shown up in the 1850 census. And also, Cynthia was probably too old to have had more children after Samantha. "Jasper L." might be the "Joseph", age 19, who was living with Wade Harvey's family ten years later (and not listed as Wade's son); if so, this supports the possibility that Wade was a son of Thomas and Cynthia.

1860 Federal Census for Thomas Harvey Household
Greensboro, Choctaw Co., Mississippi, pg 347, 30 Aug 1860
Household 1085

Thomas Harvey; 66; M; Farmer & Constable; 300/590; SC
Cynthea Harvey; 65; F; house hold mistress; SC
Samantha Harvey; 16; F; spinster; Missi
Nancy Harvey; 12; F; ; Missi
Jasper L. Harvey; 9; F; ; Missi

The 1860 census shows another Harvey family in Choctaw County, the family of William C. Harvey and Roxanna Bridges:

1860 Federal Census for W.C. Harvey Household
Choctaw Co., Mississippi, Township 18, pg 295, 8 Aug 1860
Household 719

W.C. Harvey; 35; M; Farmer; 400/659; Ala
Roxannah Harvey; 26; F; household mistress; Ala
Lucinda A. Harvey; 9; F; ; Missi
Thomas R. Harvey; 7; M; ; Missi
Cynthia Harvey; 5; F; ; Missi
James A. Harvey; 3; M; ; Missi
Zephaniah Harvey; 1; M; ; Missi

I couldn't find William C. in the 1850 census, but a woman who was probably his future wife was living in Choctaw County in 1850. William C. Harvey is a good candidate for being a son of Thomas and Cynthia because:

1. His children's names: Thomas, Cynthia, and Zephaniah. A later son was named Rufus Wade.
2. William was born in Alabama during the time when Thomas and Cynthia lived there.
3. The 1880 census says that Williams parents were both born in Georgia. (Parents' birthplaces on the census are notoriously unreliable and the census schedules for Thomas and Cynthia weren't even very consistent. 1850 census for Thomas says Georgia; 1860 census for Thomas says South Carolina. For Cynthia, the 1850, 1860, and 1880 censuses say South Carolina and the 1870 census says Georgia. Even the 1880 census showing Cynthia living with son James and daughter "Cymantha" says that Cynthia was born in South Carolina but the mother of her two children was born in Georgia!)

There was another new Harvey family in Choctaw County in 1860, but I have less reason to believe that Levi Harvey (head of that household) was related. We can go into that on another day.


D. 1870 and 1880 Census: James L. Harvey

Moving on another ten years, the 1870 census shows a James L. Harvey in Choctaw County and Cynthia and Samantha are living with him:

1870 Federal Census for James L. Harvey Household
Greensbrough, Choctaw Co., Mississippi, pg 4, 8 Sep 1870.
Household 19

Harvey, James L.; 36; M; W; Farmer; 100/453; Alabama
Harvey, Bell; 22; F; W; Keeping House; ; Mississippi; married in Nov
Harvey, Cyntha; 60; F; W; At Home; ; Georgia
Harvey, Symantha; 23; F; W; At Home; ; Mississippi

James appears to be the son of Cynthia. The 1880 census confirms it:

1880 Federal Census for Jas L. Harvey Household
Sumner Co., Mississippi, pg 4, 3 Jun 1880.
Household 28

Harvy, Jas L; W; M; 45; ; Farmer; Alabama; Ga; Ga
Harvy, Belle; W; F; 29; Wife; Keeping House; Mississippi; NC; NC
Harvy, Ada; W; F; 9; Daughter; At School; Mississippi; Ala; Miss
Harvy, Buena V; W; F; 6; Daughter; At Home; Mississippi; Ala; Miss
Harvy, Cynthia; W; F; 83; Mother; At Home; South Carolina; SC; SC
Harvy, Cymantha J.; W; F; 30; Sister; At Home; Mississippi; Ga; Ga
Hays, Alford; B; M; 17; ; Laborer on Farm; Mississippi; Miss; Miss

I wasn't able to find James L. Harvey in earlier census schedules.


E. 1830 and 1840 Census: Thomas Harvey

Going back in time, the 1830 census shows a "Thos Harvy" in Fayette County, Alabama. Ages in household: two males 5-10; one male 10-15; one male 30-40; one female 0-5; one female 10-15; one female 15-20; one female 30-40.

I couldn't find the Thomas Harvey family in the 1840 census, so I believe the were in Mississippi in 1840, but not yet in Choctaw County.


F. Summary

Given all of the above, we can speculate that some or all of the following were children of Thomas Harvey and Cynthia Malone ("CONFIRMED" if we know for sure):

• b. abt 1816, GA: Lucy (married Archibald Cameron)
• b. abt 1818, GA: Wade H. (married Elizabeth)
• b. abt 1820, AL: Z.E. (unknown after 1850)
• b. abt 1824, AL: William C. (married Elizabeth Roxanna Bridges)
• b. abt 1828, AL: Elizabeth (unknown after 1850)
• b. abt 1829, AL: Isaac L. (unknown after 1850)
• b. abt 1834, AL: James L. (married Bell)--CONFIRMED
• b. abt 1840, MS: Jefferson (unknown after 1850)
• b. abt 1842, MS: Samantha (unmarried in 1880)--CONFIRMED

A descendant of William C. Harvey recently participated in the Harvey Y-DNA Project <www.familytreedna.com/public/HARVEY/default.aspx>. Since Lucy Harvey was my ancestor, I'd like to prove whether she and William C. were siblings. If so, then the DNA results will be valuable for researching my line; if not, then I know to not rely on the DNA results for my line.

G. Next Steps

Does anybody have any additional information thats supports or refutes the speculation that these people listed above were related? Does anybody know of any other candidates for the parents of Lucy Harvey?

Please post any information that you have here or, if you prefer, send it to me by e-mail and I'll post it. Please feel free to disagree or dispute anything that I've written. The more scrutiny, the better the chance that we'll discover the truth.

I posted census extracts for these Harvey families at <www.hillnetwork.com/gen/harvey/harveycensus>. They're a little more complete that the census data I included here.

Here's what I intend to do next:

1. I ordered the 1878 pension application filed by Cynthia Harvey. I'll scan and upload it when I receive it.
2. Will and probate records for Choctaw County for this period were apparently destroyed, but I'll order the deed books on microfilm as soon as I can get to the Family History Center. I'll post what I find, but it will take several weeks.

Rena Young sent me "A Little Bit of History", written in 1950 by Viola Hughes Martin (1879-1962, daughter of Alice Wade Cameron and D.W. Hughes) and Belle Gordon Southward (1864-1957, daughter of Mary Elizabeth Cameron and G.W. Gordon). A scanned copy is attached to this message.

"A Little Bit of History" contains a lot of great genealogical information and is a good read to boot. It's mainly about the trek from Mississippi to Texas. I saw this some years ago in my dad's genealogy papers, but I had forgotten about it until Rena sent it yesterday. I asked Rena to send it to me after she referred to the following paragraph as evidence that Lucy and William were siblings:

It wasn't long until the rest of the Camerons came to Texas. Nancy Cameron, a sister of the other Cameron women, a spinster school teacher came with Uncle Bill Harvey and his wife and ten children. (Uncle Bill was a brother of Lucy Cameron--mother of these Camerons that came to Texas--their father, Tom Harvey and his wife, were both part Indian.)

This confirms that William C. Harvey (who was in Cooke County, Texas in the 1880 census) was Lucy Harvey's brother.

Rena also sent me a scanned image of a tin type of Jim Harvey, son of William C. Harvey, that had belonged to her grandmother, Etolia (daughter of Alice Wade Cameron). Further evidence that these two Harvey families were related.


Summary: Parents of Lucy Harvey

Given the following, I think it's appropriate to conclude that Lucy Harvey's parents were Thomas Harvey and Cynthia Malone:

1. "A Little Bit of History" confirms that Lucy and William C. Harvey were siblings.
2. William C. named three of his children Thomas, Cynthia, and Zephaniah (supposedly Thomas Harvey's father's name). And Lucy named two of her children Thomas and Cynthia.
3. "A Little Bit of History" states that Lucy's father was Tom Harvey.
4. The circumstantial evidence provided by the census data, as outlined in my first post.

Indian Ancestry

Regarding the statement in "A Little Bit of History" that Thomas Harvey and his wife were part Indian; an assertion that many descendants have heard:

1. Mike Harvey recently took the Y-DNA test, which tests for Y-chromosome markers that are passed from father to son, changing only when there is a mutation. It's useful for comparing with other researchers of the same surname because it provides information about whether you have a common male ancestor with that surname. The more closely you match, the more likely it is that your common ancestor was recent. Another use of the test result is to find out the region of origin of your surname using the "haplogroup". Mike's Y-DNA test results show a haplogroup of "I1", which is of European origin. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_(Y-DNA) for more information about this haplogroup.) This tells us that William C. Harvey's father's father's father's father's father, etc. was European, not Native American. It's possible that one of his Harvey ancestors had a Native American mother, but the Harvey line goes back to Europe.
2. There's another DNA test, mtDNA, that traces the mother's line. These markers are passed along from mother to son and daughter (unlike the Y-DNA markers, which are only passed to sons). My dad took this test and it shows a haplogroup of "J1", which is of European and Near East origin. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(mtDNA) for more information about this mtDNA haplogroup.) This line is my dad's mother's mother's mother's mother, etc. It happens to go to Lucy Harvey and her mother (now believed to be Cynthia Malone). So we know that she was not Native American on her mother's mother's mother's mother, etc. line. It's possible that she had a male ancestor with some Native American ancestry.
3. Kelly O'Donnell pointed out in an e-mail to me and Rena that Thomas Harvey was listed in the 1860 census as 'farmer and constable' and was likely a respected member of the community and she speculated that the Indians who chose to stay in the area after it was settled by whites might have given him the name Tomahajah as a friend.
4. I think we need to research Thomas Harvey and Cynthia Malone and see where that leads us.

Michael Hill wrote:I ordered the 1878 pension application filed by Cynthia Harvey. I'll scan and upload it when I receive it.

The National Archives sent me the 57-page pension application file, which I scanned and uploaded. Here's the link: www.hillnetwork.com/gen/harvey/files/Harvey_Pension_Application_File_from_NARA.pdf (19.3 MB PDF file)

(If you click on the link, it might show the PDF file within your browser, depending on what browser you're using. If you want to download it to your computer, right-click on the link and select the appropriate command to download.)

Interesting facts from the application file include:

• Her name was spelled Syntha, Synthia, Cinthia, and Cynthia in the file, although she signed her name X.
• Her maiden name was Malone.
• Thomas and Syntha were married in Jones County, Georgia on 25 Jul 1814 by Ichabod Cox, Justice of the Peace.
• Physical description of Thomas Harvey as a young man:
  • About 6 ft 1 in
  • About 160 pounds
  • Dark skin
  • Black eyes
  • Black hair
• Thomas Harvey's military career:
  • War of 1812:
    • Private, Captains Boon and Samuel Butts, Georgia Militia
    • Volunteered at Jasper Co., Georgia
    • Served from 23 Aug 1813 to 9 Mar 1814
  • Florida War:
    • Private, Capt. William S. Taylor, Alabama Volunteers, Florida War
    • Volunteered at Fayetteville (the name of the city of Fayette at that time) in Fayette County, Alabama
    • Served 27 Feb 1836 to 12 May 1836
• Thomas was 56 years old on 3 Mar 1851 when he applied for a Bounty Land Warrant for serving in "the War with the Seminole Indians in Florida".
• Thomas and Syntha residences:
  1. 1815-1819: Jasper Co., Georgia
  2. Fayette Co., Alabama
  3. 1838: Choctaw County, Mississippi
• Thomas died in Greensboro, Mississippi on or about 22 December 1862.
• Syntha was still living in Greensboro on 9 Sep 1885. (Greensboro was part of Webster County by then.)

Some of the information is repeated in the file and there are some inconsistencies, so some of the highlights mentioned here might be contradicted to some degree. For example, one page mentions that they lived in Pickens County, Alabama, but doesn't mention Fayette County.

Thank you for posting the pension application documents and other documents. Any more you find please post. It gets so expensive ordering these things. Based on your 2009 post I did this research:

I think I have confirmed that the other two Harvey men living near Thomas and Cynthia Harvey in Choctaw County in the 1850 census indeed are his sons.

I don't know if you want to update this on your website, but here is my updated list of their children:
Lucy Harvey 1816 in GA – 1870
Wade H. Harvey 1818 in GA – ?
Zephaniah E. Harvey 1820 in AL – ?
William Clarion Harvey 1824 in AL – 1894
Elizabeth Harvey 1828 in AL – ?
Isaac Harvey 1829 in AL – ?
James L. Harvey 1834 in AL – 1893
Thomas Jefferson Harvey 1840 in MS – 1860
Symantha J Harvey 1842 in MS – ?

The two oldest boys I think we knew the least about. The one born in 1818 in Georgia is listed as W.H. Harvey in the 1850 and 1860 census, but the 1870 census reveals his name is Wade, which matches perfectly with the naming traditions in this family. He also named one of his sons Wade. And I can connect him to the second brother, known simply as Z.E. Harvey in the 1850 census. ZE and his wife had a son whose name appears to be Thadeus in the census but it's Josephus. Josephus later migrated to Texas as did several of the Harvey and Cameron families. Josephu's Texas death certificate showed he was born to Zephaniah Harvey and Elizabeth Gordon. In the 1870 census, Josephus is living with his uncle Wade H. Harvey. I am guess his parents were deceased by then as I find now other record of those Z.E. and Elizabeth Harvey. To add to the confusion, Wade H. Harvey was also married to a woman named Elizabeth. Two different women; both are with their husbands in the 1850 census. Also, Josephus later named one of his sons Zephaniah. As you know that is a name favored in the Thomas Harvey family and one of the reasons we believe him to be the son of Zephanaiah Harvey and Nancy Smith of Jasper County, Georgia.

I would love documentation showing Lucy Cameron's maiden name is Harvey and that Thomas Harvey is her father. Nearly all her children died in Oklahoma and their death certificates are not free and online like they are in Texas. I have her son Thomas Cameron's 1921 death certificate - it does not lists names of parents. Her daughter Cynthia Cameron Hillyer died in Texas and her death record simply lists the father's name, which appears to be Archie Cameron or Cannon.

-Sidney Schuhmann Levesque (Thomas A. Cameron descendant)
Abilene, TX